Discussion Forum
Discussion: Read this before you submit
First off, I like the way the submission system works. I've read so much rubbish over the years; I don't want to be guilty of generating any of it.
If scores could be changed anytime (I can understand wanting to change bloopers made while scoring) then we could do a tweak here and there and then ask for a new read, which would exhaust the membership.
By making each score static, we must thoroughly consider every revision - which we should automatically do anyway.
The only thing I could ask for would be a way to give feedback to the reviewer, though I can see a reason for not doing so. By providing no means to respond, the reviewer is spared any possibility of an ill rebuke, allowing them to give reviews without the fear of being torn apart. This provides the reader with the needed armor to be honest.
A happy compromise would be to allow the author to applaud a review. They could click a button and then offer several different levels of applause (no boos - just applause) allowing the reviewer to know when they were truly appreciated by the person they reviewed. Just a thought.
Otherwise, I think this site stands of firm ground and I feel kinda guilty now for any misgivings I first had before looking into this site. Then again, who could blame me? After all... wouldn't you question something that seemed too good to be true? I'm just happy it is. :)
(and once again, I have babbled too much and worked on my story too little - doh!)
The spoken lasts but a moment; the written lasts forever.
Meh. You haven't been here very long if your worried about long posts.Check out some of what Cloisters done;). As far as replying to reviews though, you can always use the book talk forum to tell someone if their review gave you a great idea or whatever. You can even dicuss ones that you feel are unfair like Jennifer did about people calling her sentence structure simple.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think I agree with Yoshi97 that it would be nice to be able to mark reviews as "this was helpful and constructive" or "this was not helpful." Certainly it would provide one mechanism where people who wanted to know how to write a helpful review could find examples. But part of me worries that people would be tempted to mark any critical review as "not helpful" just out of spite.
Certainly I hope that wouldn't happen, because I would hope that people are mature and responsible enough not to do that simply because someone gave them a review that didn't stroke the writer's ego. But on the other hand I've had people flip out at me on other writing sites for the same kind of "tough love" reviews that I do here. So I dunno. Once bitten, twice shy, and all that.
And Elspeth-- as for the long posts, at least they won't look so long once they get that site-redesign done to make things wider. :P
Sign up for National Novel Writing Month at www.nanowrimo.org; novel writing starts November 1st!
Cloister's active submissions:
The Fallen
I actually like 'tough love'. It's helped me write some fantastic short stories, and I hope it will help me place my novel on shelves. And cloister, I wanted you to know your review was extremely helpful.
I went and redid the beginning, noting I was giving out too much backstory that just wasn't needed to get the story moving... that's why I spent so much time telling, as there wasn't much to show yet.
If I've learned anything in my short time here, it's that you gotta earn those stars... and I like it. :)
The spoken lasts but a moment; the written lasts forever.
Cloister, you actually expect people to be mature?!? Wow.... And I don't think any widening of the site is gonna make much difference in the length of your reviews:) the things are freakin' essays! Very helpful for the author I'm sure but...well I imagine you have quite a struggle with carpal tunnel syndrome?
Substance matters to me. I welcome each review and receive them as opinions, useful insight, not criticism. Tell me what you think and be honest about it. It's part of our growth process. We strive to produce a professional product we hope consumers will buy.
Thanks to all who have reviewed my submission. I applaud you for taking time to read and comment on it.
I do, Elspeth, I do. The wrist braces and the ergonomic keyboard help, though.
Sign up for National Novel Writing Month at www.nanowrimo.org; novel writing starts November 1st!
Cloister's active submissions:
The Fallen
That's good. It'd really suck if you crippled yourself with NaNoWriMo right around the corner:).
I'll probably be unable to type after a full month of writing.....
Chaos_reigns's active submissions:
(K)Night School (revised)
As harsh as it seems, this process makes sense. It is also a good disciplinary mechanism. Anyone who wants to succeed as a writer should follow the habits you force upon us at any rate. Thanks for a chance to get some outside feedback on my work.
Charlieray's active submissions:
Child of the Flames
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The way the submission system works is to model what happens in a book store. In a book store, people see your book, read the back cover, maybe a few pages and decide to buy the book, or put it back on the shelf. Very rarely do they go back once they have decided not to buy. Certainly, they don't expect the author to fix up the text by the next time they visit the store. So, in our submissions, once someone has reviewed, that's it for that reader. They cannot update their review, even if you edit your submission. (Note - we are working on a system to let people fix their review for certain kinds of mistakes. But we will continue to prevent people from changing their mind.)
What does this mean to you? Like that book in the book store, you only get one chance with readers. You have to make sure that what you submit is the best it can be. Some of our reviewers are notoriously picky, if your writing is a little limp, or your story doesn't go anywhere, you aren't going to get the points just because you have potential. You've got to put up a good book.
I am a writer too, so I know how hard it can be to think that something that took so much work could be less than perfect. The fact is, when I read some of my old stories, I have to admit that some of them are not nearly as good as I thought they were when I wrote them. I need to get another reader I trust, or put some time between the writing and the reading to have any chance of knowing if the work is good or not. I have already posted about support websites and I still recommend the Novelist's Desk on Writer Cafe, Critique Circle and others as great places to get feedback. Don't trust a site were everyone smiles and tells you how brilliant you are without any specifics. More often than not, they are hoping you will return the favor and say nice things about their story. Such sites are great for the ego, but they do little to help you improve.
I want to try another possibility. Before you submit to the website, you can mail the submission to gary@longtalepress.com. If you send me a Word file and I have time, I will send it back with proposed revisions and annotations describing my idea for how to improve the submission. I can't guarantee that my opinions will get you published, but I can point out the kinds of things that hold stories back. I have seen hundreds of writing samples and I have a decent idea of what works and what doesn't. You are, of course, free to use or ignore any of my suggestions.