Long Tale Press

Use this thread to discuss the excerpt How to Create a Super Hero by Jennifer Mills.

Others may not have read this excerpt yet, so please use [spoiler][/spoiler] tags where appropriate.

You make an excellent point about who is doing the reviews. This is one of my complaints with critique circles and creative writing classes. It is way too easy for, so called, experts to miss the point and ruin something that would be quite acceptable to real readers. That is one of the reasons we created this site. We want real readers to pick the books they like to read. I encourage my kids to come to the site and pick the books they like. They are a bit older than your demographic, but there is no reason why kids (Or their parents, since that is who will actually make the purchase) can't come here.

Gary

I guess what is really important is to get readers here as well as writers. I've seen some sites where the only people reviewing and reading one anothers work are the writers. Sometimes what happens is that someone will give a book (or piece of work) a bad review. The writer of that work will then search out the reviewer's work and post a revenge review, picking the work to pieces out of spite. Of course I don't do that, but I'm always curious about the work of a writer who reviews. What they write is a good indication of what they like to read usually. I'm really glad to hear that a few non favourable reviews here won't disqualify good reviews ... because lets face it, reading is a very personal taste thing.

Oh, and as to Jennifer's concern about "revenge reviews", yeah I guess that's always a possibility. I would hope, however, that people who decide this is a fun site to hang out on and contribute to are more mature than that.

By now I've reviewed almost everything on this site. Much of it is totally outside of the genres I've ever written in. But I have to say, I've found some interesting and amazing stuff here by doing that. Things I would never have sought out on my own but I'm glad I had a chance to see.

There's a selfish angle as well: I also think that it's tremendously useful for me as a writer to be exposed to the styles and talents of lots of other people. Whether it's seeing a hugely clever strategy for dealing with what would otherwise be in infodump (like you pulled off in your submission) or whether it's seeing some other excerpt crash-and-burn, I always learn something about what to do or what to avoid. And that makes me a better writer.

I can't speak for anyone else, but you won't see me doing a revenge review. If someone hates my submission, that's ok. The book just isn't for them. And like Gary said in that other thread, negative reviews don't actually hurt anything. Well, except maybe my pride, but if I'm going to post my work on a review-oriented website, I'd better be at least a little bit thick-skinned about it, eh?

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I have to say,Jennifer, as a young adult reader I'm kind of cheesed that you think you need to dumb things down for us. I've been told that I'm a good reader but i never would have gotten that way if the authors that I read said "oh I'd better make that sentence simpler so that the poor kids can understand it."

That sounds better but for me it was always those books that did have a little harder sentence structure that pushed me to become a better reader. I understand that there are people who would be more comfortable with a simpler structure but it kind of hits me where I live to hear people say stuff like "writers will comment on how simple my language and/or sentence structure is. This is deliberate as I am keeping the ability of the target reader in mind." I'll admit though, I've always read older people books because I can't make the kids ones last long enough.

There's a difference between writing with an eye towards maximizing a younger reader's chance to, as the saying goes, "read the same story that the writer is trying to tell" and dumbing it down.

The former is a laudable goal. The latter is condescending and insulting to one's audience.

To my way of thinking, writing with an eye towards maximizing the reader's chances to get what you're after is a matter of, essentially, grammar. It's about the surface level of the writing, the subtle language and sentence choices you make that either enhance or detract from clarity. It doesn't mean you have to write "see spot run" sentences. It doesn't mean you have to infodump. IMHO, when writing for children you should absolutely use colorful, evocative language. Use sentences with direct and indirect objects and the occasional subordinate clause. That's fine. Just don't forget that the ultimate goal is to writing the cleanest, clearest prose you can that is still lively and entertaining.

This next part is about dumbing things down, and strays into cranky old man rant territory, so I'll spoiler it for the faint-hearted:

Dumbing it down, to my way of thinking, is a matter of content. It's about believing (wrongly, let me be clear) that the audience is too thick-headed to comprehend the subtle complexities of your masterful piece of literature unless you spoon-feed them information that you would expect an adult reader to infer from context. That, frankly, is an insult and I have just about zero patience for that kind of crap. A writer should never insult or underestimate their audience like that. Worse, writers who disrespect their audience that much tend, as a rule, not to put as much effort into their writing, either. Having decided they need to spoon feed everything to the reader, they feel relieved of the burden of looking for subtle and natural ways to convey setting and character backstory, with the inevitable result that they infodump all over the place.

This, I suspect, is why I get so cranky about infodumps. Because I cannot help but see them as an insulting insight into the writer's estimation of their audience.

So write for children, yes. Even write differently for children, when that is called for. But heaven help anyone who dumbs their writing down because their audience is younger and then has the temerity to post that work here, because I'll have no problem saying exactly what I think about it.Show spoiler

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I agree with Elspeth, you put it so well, Cloister! I also want to point out that most young adults are very good at reading, they just hate doing it. So, you have to make it more exciting, not more simple.